I didn’t watch it; I don’t see the point. It doesn’t matter who “won” it. If Mr. Nye (“Science Guy”) was seen to have lost narrowly or won big, it will be reported that he won big. If Mr. Ham (Creation Guy) won big, it will be reported that he is a racist, sexist, homophobe, or the story will be buried. That’s just the way these things work today.
Oh, I have a head full of thoughts on the subject in general, on the Theory of Evolution, the Big Bang Theory, the Global Warming Theory… but who cares what I think about them?
I have a head full of thoughts about these kinds of debates in general as well, and I don’t think much of them. I’m really more interested in how people respond to them, how they “spin” them, you might say. But them this really isn’t that kind of a blog…
Still, something in the back of my head keeps saying, “Write on this!” Could it be characterized as a still, small little voice? Maybe.
A Question for the teacher
What am I left with? I’m only left with a question. It is a question that I first heard in a high school biology class nearly 40 years ago, asked by a notorious pot-head, no less, a question the our teacher didn’t choose to answer. The question was this:
“So you’re saying that we are pond scum that accidentally somehow turned into people for no reason and no purpose. What’s the point of doing anything, then?”
At the time, I thought that the guy who asked the question, Tim was his name as I recall, had fairly and accurately summed up what we were being taught, and our teacher had no answer. A class discussion ensued, but didn’t last long as our teacher, now very angry, yelled at us to “SHUT UP!”
Tim did not graduate from high school, since he died of a drug overdose in 11th grade… He was not the only one, I can assure you.
I’m not suggesting that Tim’s problems, and the problems of anybody else were caused by the Theory of Evolution. Yet with that said, we cannot but question the implications of the theory, and wonder how much damage they have done in the minds of human beings who had little or no hope that tomorrow would be a better day.
Oh, you might just say that people like Tim were great Darwinian examples of the weak being eliminated and the strong living on to reproduce. Yeah, maybe that’s it, survival of the fittest! But if you were to say that, I’d reply that you are one sick puppy!
Well that was Tim’s question, here’s mine:
How much pure human potential has been destroyed by teaching our children that human life has no value or meaning other than SELF?
Maybe someone would “answer” the question by simply calling me names; yes, that’s the way it’s done these days. I’ve seen quite a few of them in “atheist” blogs recently. Surely, if I pose such an indelicate question I must be “abusive, oppressive, homophobic” or simply “deluded.” Surely guys like me, asking tough questions need to be made to appear foolish so nobody will listen; “marginalized” is what the politicians call it. Yes, “marginalized” just like Jesus Christ was marginalized by His opponents, you know who they were, the guys who wouldn’t dare answer the tough questions.
Yes, it’s funny how much of that is posted under “Bible” on WordPress!
And still, the question remains.
OK, here’s another possibility, you could go “scientific” on me and say that Tim’s question, and mine too, are examples of hysterical reactions to truthful scientific discoveries on the part of people who are victimized by fairy tales, myths and evil oppressive religious traditions. (Oh, I like this one!) And you could say that there is no evidence whatsoever that anything has ever happened as a result of the philosophical implications of Evolution. In fact, you might even say that philosophical implications are irrelevant, and maybe you would be right about that. But would you dare to look at crime and social statistics for the last 50 years and tell us that nothing has been going on in our midst?
There were gangs 50 years ago; how many drive-by’s were there? There were guns 50 years ago, how many kids shot up their schools back then? How many shot up shopping malls or movie theaters? What was the divorce rate? What percentage of kids dropped out of school back then? Or couldn’t read? Or who swore at the teachers? Or who had total disregard for authority? Or…? Or…? Or…? These questions could go on for quite some time, don’t you think?
What happens when we teach young, impressionable children that there is no value in human life, and that there is no purpose in their own lives; that life has no meaning, that there is no God, no authority, and that they can just do whatever feels good at the moment? Why not, we are nothing more than a cosmic mistake!
What happens?
Nothing good…. and yes, I am being judgmental: Deal with it.
Could there be hope?
Yes, there could be hope! We aren’t called to pawn the Bible off as a scientific handbook; it isn’t one! It is a book of hope, meaning and love. Many in our time will say they don’t believe in God because of science, but science isn’t the point. The point is in the Person of Jesus Christ. Let such people see the love of Jesus Christ at work in the way you live your life. Let them see your joy, your peace and your hopefulness. As your relationships grow and mature into relationships of trust, you might just be surprised at who comes around, for they will see in you qualities that cannot be measured in the laboratory. They will see the very being of Christ!
Life Project Blog 
Simply awesome! Very good read!
Thank you Jennifer!
I love this: “they will see in you qualities that cannot be measured in the laboratory”. So very true. Thank you!
I appreciate that, thank you!
I find these debates unhelpful in many ways, as well. It isn’t an either-or people. We have to understand these things. Many will say there aren’t negatives that come from the philosophical implications of evolution, but will turn around and say that religion is a poison that has done much evil in the world.
Plus, to say that the Ken Hams or the authority on Christianity is the same as saying the Bill Nyes are the authority on science. There are broad spectrums within each community. Personally, I don’t read the Bible the way Ken Ham, or many people like him do. I look at the scriptures, looking for Jesus. I am not out on a quest for the beginnings and explanations of everything. Scripture is sufficient to point to Jesus, he himself said it.
Jesus has come, he still comes. The one who was and is, is putting all things to rights, here and now. We need to stop distracting ourselves and heal that which is broken. I appreciate your desire to not let others neglect what is really at stake in the hear and now.
Right on, Jacob!
I really enjoyed reading this post. This has really been on my mind lately. I feel like we are always trying to prove to people that the Bible backs up science, but the Bible is not a science book even though it does contain many scientific discoveries. I agree that debates don’t really matter because usually all you do is push people further apart.
Exactly!
I did so enjoy reading this post, Don. However, I think it is important to note that while the Bible is not a scientific text book, science does back up the Bible. If that were not true, then the Bible is simply a collection of mythical stories. That, I believe is the point and passion that presses Ken Ham and his ministry. For more reading that addresses this, as well as how the church can address it, I highly recommend Already Gone, by (guess who?) Ken Ham. The thrust is this: worldview affects everything, and worldview is shaped by answering three key questions: Where did I come from, why am I here, and where am I going?
Thanks Jen!
I watched the debate and was honestly cheering on Ken Ham. I totally see your point of view. I passed biology my sophomore or freshmen year. I fail to remember. I remember every time the topic got anywhere close to evolution the teacher would jump around it. I think that if the schools are to teach one theory they should teach both creationism and evolution. Just my 2 cents.
Thanks for your 2 cents, Cody!
I could barely stomach my Twitter feed after the debate. Another opportunity for people to trash Jesus Christ and mock His name. One man even stated he was more of an atheist than ever. That is because you are so right–JESUS CHRIST is the one and only answer to a world that is sin sick and against life and hope–because it would require those people admitting they need help and need a Savior. Our humanistic society teaches us that WE ARE ENOUGH. And as poor Tim realized, that is a tragic misunderstanding that leads to heartache and loss.
That is very well stated, thank you!
Reblogged this on Aw Laugh Think and commented:
I can’t say I agree with this assertion. Bill Nye lost the moment he agreed to this “debate”.
You have a very good point! It gives me much more life energy and happiness to believe that I was formed by a loving God rather than to believe I evolved from “pond scum”.
Loved this post!
coveredbymercy.wordpress.com
Thank you, I really appreciate your comment!
Good commentary. I saw that there was a debate happening and thought what a waste of time.
LOL, thanks Steve!
Wonderful post!
Thanks!
I agree! I also watched most of the debate and was quite captivated; it actually was very interesting. I have to say that I was stunned and incredibly blessed that Mr. Ham powerfully presented the gospel – of course you can’t believe Genesis without the hope and promise of a Savior. In my opinion, it wasn’t about winning or losing the debate, because I’m sure few, if any minds were changed. I think what I’m finding interesting is the division within the Christian community. Honestly, I don’t see how anyone can be a Bible-believing Christian and not believe in a young earth; yet there are some coming forward now defending evolution–although I disagree, I cannot say that they are not saved. In fact, in the midst of the divisions that can come between Christians through this debate, it is important that those who do not know God can see the “love of Jesus Christ at work in the way you live your life.” On an interesting side note, Mr. Nye claimed that the ever-expanding universe is evidence of the “big-bang” theory. I tend to think the expanding universe has a lot to do with Jesus preparing a home for his people! (John 14:1-3)
I’ve heard whispers in the scientific community about the inconsistencies in the Big Bang theory, one of which is the notion that if the universe is “infinite” how can it expand? Einstein had problems with it as it relates to General Relativity and devised his “Cosmological Constant” to address his problems with the whole, which said that the universe is pulsing; that it expands and contracts… but years later denounced this and agreed that there must be a God. When I looked this up in a research library, i could only find it in German…
Interesting.
nicely posted. i agree with your perceptions and perspectives completely. science is spectacular, but left without faith and the soul, science on its own leads to fatalistic materialism that destroys culture and society.
Thanks, very well stated
I believe God has done all He can do to prove His existence to us. He has shown Himself through creation, He sent His Son, gave us the Holy Spirit, and the Bible. I think people either see why He is, or make excuses as to why He isn’t. I think it comes down to the fact that some people just don’t want Him. They love their sins more then they love God.
Good point, it’s as if many have the will to not know
Your are on top form again, Don! 🙂
Thanks, Paul
Good thoughts!
Thanks
Finally got to read your blog. First of all when I think of “The Big Bang Theory”, I think of four nerds and this blonde babe dating one of them. Reruns a plenty and new episodes on CBS on Thursday nights. Anyway….
It was interesting how on facebook some really unloaded on Mr. Ham and his argument on the page “The Other 98%”. Including a graphic showing an open a bible with the caption “Not A Fact” then on the bottom “Just A Claim”. I showed you one other graphic on your FB page, they came out out of the woodwork. Probably the same people who was quick to make mean captions with pictures of Peyton Manning messing up at the Super Bowl.
I agree it is more for hope, love of humanity, and perhaps a better way of life with a clear conscious. I think of a “big bang” occuring many moons ago, something had to trigger it. Okay, granted I have nto seen the debate and I had invitations from both sides fo the coin to see it. A friend who is science based but her worship is a little different which I don’t want to get detailed not to sound judgemental. On the other side, a co-worker/friend of a long time invted me to his churches viewing of the debate.
Sounds like nothing really got accomplished. A Nye reaction was shown on “Early Today” about not having proof. Something like that. I was busy at the time checking a feed of the days “Queen Lativah” we were airing later in the day.
I would like to ask the sciende crowd what is their hope for the young?
Hey William! I hope you checked out this morning’s post on 1 John; the answer is there!
You commented that you were being judgmental. I suppose there’s a context to that. 1 Corinthians 6:3 – “Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?” Displaying sensible judgement and good discernment are often labelled as “judgmental” in times where people do not want to hear truth on any level. Keep up the good work.
That’s it… thanks!
Awesome Post! I couldn’t agree more. Being a man in my 50s, full time pastor, part time public school bus driver, I can tell you that I am seeing first hand the social breakdown of this generation. I appreciated your insight as to the fact that there were gangs and guns in the past, but the reason for the rise in crime today is because of the devaluing of human life by humanistic philosophies taught in our public schools. If, according to Darwin, we are nothing more than “the most efficient animal to appear on the earth”, then it is only natural that men act like animals.
Thanks for your comments! it would seem that we are one on this, pastor!
You are a brave man, Don. Personally, I think it takes more faith to believe in the Big Bang than to believe in a Creator God. I can see His hand-prints in His image – Imago Dei- which I bear. As such, I will not stretch my faith unnecessarily to embrace theories such as multiverse theory espousing that each universe starts with its own big bang merely to escape the concept of Creation.
Personally I quite agree with you. Big bangs and intelligent pond scum mistakes are pretty thinly veiled attempts to explain away the obvious fact that God created everything, and that He reigns as King of kings and Lord of lords.
I came here following a like from my own blog, in which I’m presently reading through the bible as both a historical document and historical artifact, and I come from what I suspect would be considered the opposite side for many people here, but I thought I’d leave a comment or two.
There are philosophical implications to Evolution, but what they are entirely depends on other philosophical implications. Such as whether you believe in a definition of yourself dependent on your biological origins or not. That humans evolved over time through naturalistic processes has no bearing on the moral purpose of a human life unless you believe that origins are intrinsic to the definition of that life.
There is a more important philosophical question there though; and that is a question of the commitment and importance of truth. Assuming one accepted that there were negative social consequences to a wide-spread belief in education, should we not teach it even if the evidence overwhelmingly points to it being the truth? The History of science if filled with people who accepted their findings because they matched the evidence, and because they believed, whether out of philosophical, personal or religious sentiment, that they had a commitment to truth that superseded their own prejudices.
This is hardly a new argument of course. Historically as science emerged there was much discussion as to what to do when the ‘Book of Nature’ seemed to contradict or contrast with the ‘Book of God’. That becomes a matter of your particular theology of course.
I would also advise against trying to analysis or dismiss the motives of those with whom you disagree at that is a slippery slope indeed. One can readily assume that I ‘Don’t want to see god’, but one can just as readily assume some-one is so desperate to see him that they’ll say or do anything. Neither view is very charitable.
I thank you for your comments. They are both interesting and thought provoking… and each has a way of cutting both ways. As this is the case, I would have to agree with them, in fact this is why there is more common ground to be found in this discussion than most people realize… or so it seems to me.
From a different perspective: One of the reasons my husband decided to homeschool our child was due to the difference he was seeing in the public schooled and homeschooled teens who were involved in the youth group at church. Our child is now a teen and has a Christ-centered point of view because it was her choice. She knows Him and how much He loves her; she knows the gifts and talents He’s given her and that He has a purpose for living; while she’s not perfect (is anyone?), she knows that in Him is found all that she needs to live a long and fruitful life.
She is a creationist, not because we demanded it of her, but because she was presented with both sides of the argument. She told me, “I don’t want to live my life guessing whether so called ‘scientific evidence’ is true. Evolution makes no sense. How could complex human beings, even DNA, happen accidently? You can’t throw mud, dirt, grass, or sand into a bowl and poof! it becomes a cake! Creation makes sense; take the cake example. In order to make a cake, you need the right ingredients, that need to combine in the right amounts so that when it’s all mixed and poured into a cake form, it can be baked, decorated (and enjoyed by everyone). Evolution says we’re accidents, so we should live any way we want; Creation teaches us that we have a purpose. If we didn’t have a purpose, why would parents train their kids?”
Great point… smart young lady! I have personally proven more than once that even with the right ingredients, you don’t always get a recognizable cake! There needs to be some intelligence in the creation. 🙂
Hi Don, I agree with your take. The person and work of Jesus stands before every man. I am simply not sure apologetics does anything other than take our gaze away from his cross and resurrection. But bless them and their efforts, God can use the creationist’s integrity for His purposes, of that I have no doubt.
I agree
Fantastic read… thank you for pouring out your thoughts – BOOM! 😉
Thanks!
Pingback: The Evolution – Creation Debate | akleslieprice
Have any of you heard about the theory of the lines of space that would totally debunk the big bang theory?
Yep!
Loved your post! Especially the conclusion. Don, as a Christian I am not at odds with the scientific community. What I am at odds with is not giving God credit for creation. Just because mankind, with our little “pea brains” have discovered some of the ways in which God works and creates, many in the scientific community discount His being. If mankind were to count all the hairs on God’s head, mankind would only be at hair one. One “hair” is not enough to draw such sweeping conclusions of evolution! Thanks for sharing your important thoughts.
Thank you so much for your remarks; I couldn’t agree more!
Reblogged this on That Tiny Pea.