The other day, I received a question from Wally who asked:
There are some who think we are made sinless at salvation, although I disagree. I know I am saved, yet I also know that I still sin. Have you heard those arguments before and how do you respond? Obviously you agree that we are works in progress and not completed works….yet. Thanks for any insights you could share.
My answer to this question was really that it’s too big for a reply to a comment, and should rally be a whole post, and even better a whole book!I promised to post on the question by today… and so here goes.
As I read the question again this morning, I realized that there is a second way to interpret the question that hadn’t occurred to me on Saturday morning, so I’ll take a shot at both. This comes down to what does he mean by “made sinless”? There are two ways we can take that, the first being the view that at the point of salvation the saved person has their sin removed and now, as a new creation they are no longer capable of sinning at all. I cannot agree with this view, particularly since it is usually followed by a discussion of how that person is truly born again, and that since they are truly born again and have asked the Spirit to guide their understanding of Scripture, they are therefore always right because they aren’t capable of being wrong, and everyone with a differing view is always wrong, therefore they’re not truly born again, and thus not even a Christian. This to me is a somewhat extreme understanding of the Calvinist view on selection and predestination that I would imagine even Calvin would hardly recognize. Anyway, for whatever it’s worth, I don’t hold such a view because neither of them will hold up to Biblical scrutiny unless you accept the “proof texts” out of context.
The other way to take “made sinless” and the way I took it when I first read it, was that our sin has been taken away at salvation, as in forgiven and not counted against us: Justification.
I hold to this view, and at the same time, I know for certain that I am a work in progress; I still mess up way too often, as does everyone that I have ever met, including the ones who say they can’t possibly ever sin. So, how can our sins be taken away while we are still stumbling along as works in progress?
The answer to this is relatively simple; it’s by action of covenant.
When we come to salvation, we enter into a covenant relationship with our Lord; we enter the New Covenant of grace. Our sin is taken away at that time, because He promised it would be, and with sin taken away, we can now receive the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. But that isn’t the end of things, for we too have some terms to keep. We are to turn away from our old mode of living and seek to grow into His likeness, and that is where the “work in progress” part comes into play. Yes, we are a new creation because of the gift of the Spirit, but we still have a long way to go to “conform to His likeness.” Thus, we can have our sins forgiven and removed from the record, so to speak, but we still have our struggles.
OK, this is the shortest and simplest way I can think of to explain this, and while I realize that it is far short of comprehensive, it should give you the general idea of how to understand this. It is a great question!
Wally, if I’ve missed the boat, please let me know, and if anybody else has a follow-up question, by all means drop me a comment!
By the way everyone, Wally has a great blog, why not pay him a visit?
Life Project Blog 
Don
Thanks for answering my question so thoroughly. Sorry it took me awhile. Started a new position at work and now I can’t keep up blogging..sigh. You hit the mark perfectly with your answer actually. You really confirmed with good words what I thought the Bible taught about this subject. Sometimes another perspective really clears things up.
Your statement about a Calvininst view of pre-selection and all was exactly what made me seek an answer that I could put into words. I actually have a blogging friend who feels that way quite strongly, good thing we can sometimes disagree, right? And they are considerably more Biblically literate than me and I felt somewhat overwhelmed in the conversation.
So, Don thank you very much for the time you took to answer my question. I hope it not only helped me, but others as well.
Many Blessings to you in your work here!
Wally, I’m glad this helped.
Thanksfor this. In a recent post, I wrote this:https://mygearreadings.wordpress.com/2015/01/02/imputation-leaves-to-imitation-romans-61-14/
This is a great question – it is answered in Corinthians
The first point we have to establish is that the wages of sin = death this is the physical because we can not atone for our personal sin. This is a scriptural constant made in the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Ezekiel that sinners die.
Now we have to pay the personal price for our sins as all humans have before us – they have died, simple because the sinless person could live forever, Jesus had he not been killed have the potential for everlasting life as Adam had at the beginning.
So we come to Jesus and his sacrifice – this atoned for the sins of all those who had ever lived (John 5: 28, 29 all those in the tombs will hear his call and come out..) but they are not born of holy spirit.
1 Corinthians 15: 12 to 57 takes us on the journey
To accept the Christ in our lives we must first of all live like Noah, Abraham and Lot (men who condemned their generation through a blameless life not sinless [a discussion in Hebrews and John also weighs in as well]. These men were counted as righteous so they received a a credit, God determined to look on their righteous deeds and not their sins because of the future atonement they believed in.
Once Jesus arrived and died those in that same relationship who remain righteous have that privilege of approaching God through Christ knowing their sins will be forgiven and they have faith in the role of that sacrifice for their salvation. Not sinless but righteous, not perfect but dedicated to God, his Son and the means for salvation.
Holy Spirit confirms their special state and when they die they receive the heavenly reward incorruptible form.
So born again does not mean a sinless state until the resurrection. It also highlights that those who are born again and lose the righteousness accredited to them are in a desperate situation.
As you say Don it is a fascinating subject and drilling down into Pauls words does help us to appreciate that the Bible answers the question. It is only after the disposal of the flesh that the incorruptible sinless state is achieved until all things are tested and handed back to god.
Sorry to waffle on but I do enjoy this point when it is being discussed by people who study the bible because the bible answers the question.
Thanks for your thoughts; I also enjoy this whole discussion, and I’m sure that your presentation here will be helpful to those who are searching for the tuth
1 John 1:8-9 ~ If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
These verses proclaim a beautiful truth of the Christian faith. I don’t let sin have dominion over me and relish the fact that I am a not a sinner but a saint by virtue of Christ’s atoning blood. Victory in Jesus!
1 John 4:9-10 ~ This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Amen!